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Holy LLM!

Just do what we all do to dodge this, have the Account management and purchasing abilities sit inside an embedded browser window that opens up from a button push in the app. Yes it adds a little barrier but with Apple Pay it is a very small barrier and the juice is worth the squeeze.

Don’t they forbid this? Spotify couldn’t even link to their website in the US lol

This was a result of the Apple vs Epic case, external payment processors avoiding the fee were enabled in the US in May 2025.

If it was enabled, why can Apple still demand 30% cut here? Couldn’t Patreon just switch to external payment processors citing the Epic case?

They'd have to require all current subscriptions be cancelled and the re-upped with the new payment processor, no? That's gunna be really costly

But then again to avoid a 30% fee.. probably worth it


They don't have to "cite the Epic case", it's just functionality available to everyone now. Your app is no longer blocked from approval for including an external payment provider.

They'd actually have to do it though and that could lead to a large loss of revenue for themselves and their subscribers.


Because Patreon doesn't want to do that. They could.

_in the US_

In practice I’ve seen apps just game the system by (1) using IAP using the normal flow, and (2) giving user a button unrelated to purchasing that would open a new WebView, which just happens to contain a purchase button.

Spotify does link to their website to sign up in the US...

Or add a 45% apple tax afyer they click buy. E.g. costs $100, price comes up as.$100 with added apple tax as line item. total $145.

Click here to avoid apple tax takes you to web page if allowed.


Not allowed. They ban your app immediately if you inform people they are robbing them!

This and the practice of forcing you to use same pricing on different platforms should just be made illegal and it would fix so much of this.

I could be wrong but seem to remember this being explicitly disallowed by Apples terms

Except the juice is for you and the squeeze is for your customers.

And it's still a net loss.


Not sure why poeple don't just put the phone down? We really are the most sheltered gentle generation. Oh no, this app is taking up my time, we need to BAN IT.

Not drinking or gambling works so well for alcoholics and gamblers. Who needs rehab anyway?

This isn't about the small group of people who lack self control. It's about the vast majority that can use something responsibly. Most people can consume alcohol and gamble without giving their lives to it.

Not to mention this presupposes that social media addiction is rampant. But there isn't a scientific consensus on that. This lawsuit reads like scaremongering of the past around television and comic books. Instead of regulating content or user privacy we get these dog and pony shows.


And are their laws about how much I can go gamble at the casino right now or how much I can go buy at a liquor store and drink tonight?

Pretty sure too much gambling and too much alcohol is worse than watching too many short videos. So how can we say that spending time on figuring out how to block people from watching too many short videos is a better use of our time and resources than limiting gambling and drinking.


There are laws about the age you can be to gamble or drink, restrictions on the establishments where these things can occur, and you can have your license revoked for driving while under the influence, or be banned from a casino. Don't act like those are totally unrestricted activities.

There are also laws about the age you need to be to use social media platforms...

And yet we're talking about a case against social media companies and not a case against casinos or distillers.

Distinction without a difference. The social media companies re-use the playbooks these two industries practically invented. Yet social media doesn't have government-mandated surgeon general warnings or 24x7 support hotlines.

Yeah because casinos and distillers already have laws regulating their use

This isn't about regulation. This is about people bringing a lawsuit against social media companies for their addiction. Problem gamblers and alcoholics aren't suing the casinos and distilleries.

Congratulations! You have apparently won in life by successfully developing internal regulation during childhood and also won the genetic lottery by not having a disorder of the dopaminergic system like ADHD. Now please leave be the significant fraction of the population who don't have those privileges, thank you.

I've missed critical final exams and flights literally scrolling Instagram. Mental health disorders exist, alas.


That's not how addiction works. If you could "just stop" then it isn't really an addiction.

Huh, that's exactly the solution to addiction? Step 1 is always changing your behaviour patterns to break out of habits and avoid things that draw you into it.

Make your bedroom a phone-free zone, charge it in the living room overnight, use the built in parenting and screentime controls that every modern phone OS has, don't let your kids stare at the screen all day. Etc.

This isn't rocket science. Self control is one of the most important things you need to learn. It sucks and it's hard but it's basic life stuff.

The only difference with social media addiction vs drugs/gambling is that it's not socially ostracized like other addictions so people ignore it.


I think we can all agree that the solution is to stop, but that it is difficult to do so.

I'm not addicted to alcohol or gambling, but I know that it takes significantly more willpower for those that are to just stop than it does for me to not have that chocolate bar at night.

There is a proportionality to it


This is the lie that keeps people addicted. Plenty of people quit their very real addictions every day. If you imagine you're helplessly addicted, you will remain addicted.

I believed that for years, I did CBT, changing beliefs, "just do it" et cetera and I was helpless still, went from one addiction to another. Turns out I had ADHD. My life was totally changed after medication.

You don't have infinite willpower. If humans had infinite willpower humanity would have worked itself to death long ago. There is a natural balance of willpower in your brain, it's called the dopaminergic system. If you have ADHD, you have much, much less willpower than a normal person because you literally lack the dopamine hormone in your prefrontal cortex. No amount of belief will magically create dopamine in your brain out of thin air.


Tell that to a drug user. It works the same way.

And when the app is developed purposely to make people addict, that’s an issue.

You can’t just blame the user when their chance to have a normal app usage have been rigged.


re adults it does fall to individual responsibility , re kids we can partially blame parents for not taking care of their kids properly , overall the enemy of our attention has quadrillions of dollars which is fairly difficult to fight against

Funny I wondered the same thing with opiates. I dislike taking even aspirin so why can't everyone be like me!

Nice straw man.

Nobody is talking about banning anything, we’re talking specifically about holding social media companies accountable for marketing to children a product that is knowingly addictive and potentially harmful to their health.

Part of the issue with social media is that no reasonable parent lets their 12 year old watch porn or drink but Instagram and ticktock are on a lot more 12 year old’s phone’s than you realize. Social media has network effects and creates tremendous social pressure to not make your kid “different” when half the classroom is sharing TikToks.

I’m not conservative in the slightest but I see no reason to treat social media any differently than alcohol, tobacco or gambling. Available without restriction to adults but limited to children under a certain age.


This stuff is still unclear to me. The addictive drugs, ones that punish a quitter chemically, are not mysterious, but gambling addiction certainly is. "Dopamine" won't work as an explanation - for instance I was once hooked on building a wooden table, which sucked up two months of my free time and lots of money, and damaged my thumbs, and no doubt I was driven by the dopamine rush of learning through the repetitive process of chiseling. But gambling is assumed to be a glitch, not a wholesome obsession. In what way does it differ? The addiction is very old, I'm sure there are accounts from the 1700s, and it doesn't even require a house to reel the gambler in - it could all be about informal games and wagers, still leading to huge debts. It's tempting to blame it on dumb ideas about luck and fate, but the dumb ideas involved could be varied and complex.

That's similar to dumb ideas involving social pressure. When people have a tendency to be dumb about a thing we use the law to restrict the thing, apparently. But this involves, in effect, an authoritative declaration of "that's dumb" by law. I feel personally threatened, then, in activities such as my woodwork, which might have been an equally dumb obsession! I know nobody's at all likely to regulate woodwork, but that's only because it's relatively unpopular. I could imagine a parallel universe where woodwork (portable somehow) becomes a trend that makes a young person feel socially relevant, and then it gets regulated. I think I disapprove of this interference with people's dumb notions.


This is no longer a matter of adults or minors; this is a matter of terrorist acts committed by a satanic cult and organized crime. And the response will not be limited to legal means; we will seek to respond with the same kind of terrorist tactics.

Me, my team, and colleagues also in software dev are all vibe coding. It's so much faster.

If I may ask, does the code produced by LLM follow best practices or patterns? What mental model do you use to understand or comprehend your codebase?

Please know that I am asking as I am curious and do not intend to be disrespectful.


And what’s the name of the company? I’m fixing to harvest some bug bounties.

Think of the LLM as a slightly lossy compression algorithm fed by various pattern classifiers that weight and bin inputs and outputs.

The user of the LLM provides a new input, which might or might not closely match the existing smudged together inputs to produce an output that's in the same general pattern as the outputs which would be expected among the training dataset.

We aren't anywhere near general intelligence yet.


Ignoring your last line, which is poorly defined, this view contradicts observable reality. It can’t explain an LLM’s ability to diagnose bugs in code it hasn’t seen before, exhibit a functional understanding of code it hasn’t seen before, explain what it’s seeing and doing to a human user, etc.

Functionally, on many suitably scoped tasks in areas like coding and mathematics, LLMs are already superintelligent relative to most humans - which may be part of why you’re having difficulty recognizing that.


I get your sentiment but a lot of people on this forum forget that a lot of us are just working for the paycheck - I don't owe my company anything.

Do I know the code base like the back of my hand? Nope. Can I confidently talk to how certain functions work? Not a chance.

Can I deploy what the business wants? Yep. Can I throw error logs into LLMs and work out the cause of issues? Mostly.

I get some of you may want to go above and beyond for your company and truly create something beautiful but then guess what - That codebase is theirs. They aren't your family. Get paid and move on


Do you work as a consultant then? I've been with the same employer for a long time, so if my team creates a mess, I get to look at it daily.

> It's so much faster.

A lot of things are "so much faster" than the right thing. "Vibe traffic safety laws" are much faster than ones that increase actual traffic safety: http://propublica.org/article/trump-artificial-intelligence-... . You, your team, and colleagues are producing shiny trash at unbelievable velocity. Is that valuable?


Depends on your definition of works. I've shipped several subscription apps to iPhones/Androids that between them have thousands of users. Is the code good? Probably not. Are there glitches? You bet. But getting them onto the app store took less than a day's work and good money is coming in.

I was sick of my AI hallucinating, so I added in the system prompts "Do not hallucinate". Just a quick glimpse into my prompt engineering mind

No. Because that works about as well as telling a fat kid not to eat cake.

Prompts shape style, not epistemics.

What this does is moves the problem out of “please behave” and into hard constraints.

Nice drive by tho.

PS: You understand this is enforced outside the model, right? Or are you here just to try and dunk on someone?


Tried selling on eBay as a regular Joe lately? Item sold for roughly $190 and I lost $45 in fees - I didn't even have a premium ad or pay for any of the boosting.

No wonder Facebook marketplace has destroyed them


The problem is with items that have a national market but not a local one. For example - there may be very few local buyers who will pay a decent price for a vintage slide rule, but many on eBay. My general strategy is to list on FBM first for the eBay price that I hope to get, and then accept offers down to 75% of the price. If I don't get any bites after about a month I switch to eBay.

This. I was selling an obscure book once. I doubt there is anyone local that would be interested in it. It was sold on eBay within a week.

Same for a half functioning Xbox. No "normal" person would want that. But apparently, on eBay, something like a dozen people took serious interest in it, and it was sold in a few days in "parts only" condition. For sure I didn't like how much the transaction fee I paid, but at least I got rid of it for a decent amount of money.


At least in the UK, I don't lose any of the selling price to fees, 0%. The buyer has additional buying fees on their side and postage is included in the final price.

Even if they use Paypal?

As someone who hasn't sold on eBay in a looooong time but was thinking about it for some stuff I haven't been able to sell on Marketplace, their pages and pages of fee structuring were intimidating. What was the breakdown of that $45, if you don't mind sharing?

Sure,

I listed the item as $185.00 + $10.00 shipping.

Order total = $195.00

- Transaction fees = $32.44

- Postage label = $14.65

Postage I can understand.


And, at least in the US, eBay charges their "final value fee" percentage on the order total (the sale price plus the shipping price paid by the buyer). So if the item has a 3% final value fee (the percentages differ across different categories of listings) then Ebay got $0.44 of additional fee from your $14.65 of shipping you paid to the shipping service. And there is no option to obtain a rebate on actual shipping paid, even if one purchases the shipping label from eBay themselves.

I suspect they (eBay) do this to avoid folks listing items for $1.00 with $194.00 shipping to avoid paying eBay any fees.


People definitely used to do that, yes.

Yes sold a fair bit and never had issues with fee deductions. Think it’s mostly deducted seller side

No - An array is a data structure that stores pre-calculated values in memory, whereas a function is executable logic that computes a result only when it is called.

Not a semantic difference, just a performance difference ... and a function can cache for the same performance anyway.

Correct. But indexing into an array is logic that computes a result when it is called.

There are two opposing philosophical viewpoints here. Some view mathematics as a model for understanding the real world. Some see the real world as instantiation of mathematics.

Is an array a function? From one perspective, the array satisfies the abstract requirements we use to define the word "function." From the other perspective, arrays (contiguous memory) exist and are real things, and functions (programs) exist and are something else.


An array isn't a function -- indexing an array could be a function. But an array is a data structure. An array doesn't satisfy the requirements to be a function -- people are just confusing an array with array indexing.

In the mathematical sense a function is something that maps inputs to outputs. That’s also what an array is.

But this whole thing is uninteresting because it is ultimately just a disagreement about definitions.


Unusual for a train though.

We already know Americans can't drive but with trains like... how do you mess up a straight line?


> how do you mess up a straight line?

One thing I learned working on a system that did train positioning for the 7 Line subway in NYC is that train systems are a lot more complicated than just straight lines. They are complicated networks with custom signaling and the trains don't necessarily travel on the usual side in the usual direction at all times.

That said, in this particular case it basically was just two straight lines side by side and one of the trains derailed and travelled into the path of the other track.

Trains don't often derail on straight sections, likely either someone fucked up really bad on rail maintenance or someone sabotaged the rail.


> For the last decade, an average of 1,300 trains derailed each year (in the US), accounting for 61% of all train accidents.

https://usafacts.org/articles/are-train-derailments-becoming...

> In 2024, there were 1,507 significant railway accidents in the EU, with a total of 750 people killed and 548 seriously injured.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailment


I'm half-convinced our good friends the magic robots are totally defeating peoples' ability to read.

> In 2024, there were 1,507 significant railway accidents in the EU, with a total of 750 people killed and 548 seriously injured.

See the graph titled "Rail accidents by type of accident". There were 63 derailments in 2024; most of the accidents were non-fatal accidents of this type: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...


The bulk of those are accidents involving railway crossings. There is a program to get rid of all level crossings in NL but it will take a lot of time and cost a ton of money. But there really is no way in which you can make a level crossing safe in combination with normal train speeds.

American trains are largely freight travelling long rural distances. You didn't mention it, so I presume because you didn't take it into account, so your statistics sound to me like they don't mean anything comparable.

Derailments are common is what the stats show. US derailments are largely property damage as they are freight centric, while in Europe, passenger deaths are higher due to more heavy passenger utilization. Derailment is hard to defend against.

No, they are not common. The numbers you've been given are completely wrong.

The GGP has quoted the derailments figure from the USA page, but the total accidents (including trespassers and level crossing accidents) for the EU.

The EU page they cite says there were 63 derailments in 2024.

A derailment in Europe tends to make the news even when there are no injuries.

This single accident has killed more train passengers in Spain than were killed in the whole EU in 2024 (16).


They're not?

Commuter train crashes into crane in Murcia, marking Spain's fourth train crash in five days - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46725317 - January 2026


...when they come off the tracks.

a high-speed train travelling from Malaga to Madrid derailed and crossed over onto another track


Yes we know it derailed, that's not the answer to *how* it failed on a straight line.

How in the cause and effect sense, not which direction it went.


I don't understand why people are upset. How do you monetize free users? Ads. What other websites do this? All of them. Not controversial. Not an issue.

Ads are what gets me property and news flash, they aren't going away.


It's just disappointing that this is the best society could come up with. Advertising is exploitive, this is well studied, but it is also just kind of a lame outcome.

I also wonder if the dollars and cents work out, the cost to provide the service to show the ads on is astronomical in comparison to other ad networks, but I don't have details enough to make any claims on that aspect.


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